Fairly simple rules here: this thread exists for general comments and discussion about Maxim. Don't spam the thread, of course -- also, I don't want to see arguments about warnings/post editings (take those concerns to my e-mail) or anything that doesn't involve Maxim.

Conduct yourself in a polite, respectful, civil manner, and we'll keep everyone happy.

*Waves and says hullo to all here*

Also, don't worry folks you are in the hands of a trained professional former Mo'Pri administrator. Hell, I only managed to wipe out the entire forum twice by mistake then. Yer in for all kinds of fun.

Now where'd I put that banstick? Prolly in the broom closet next to the "Telani Smells Funny" bumper sticker.

Got an idea I kinda like to run by everyone for comment.

Most fantasy literature has it's share of poetry and song set in those imagined worlds. Myth and great events set into song and verse.

I'd like to start a thread with some rules I draw up that we can enrich the forum with verse. Poems of course would have to pertain to the events and myth of this, our consensual universe.

Thoughts?

Also, I have an icon contest going in events. Last I heard, first prize was 6 free range chickens and some nude pictures of Ernest Borgnine.

Glad to be back here folks.

~Ambrose

Now that I'm reasonably sure the reinforcements are here and active, I might as well make it official. Some of you might have noticed that my name isn't up there under Moderators. There's because I'm retiring, for the forseeable future (which is to say, at least two or three weeks ;>).

Those of you that actually liked me, and will miss me, I have to ask, what were you smoking, and why aren't you sharing? ;p

Those of you that don't like me very much, I believe I got Evangeline trained well enough to make your lives just as miserable as I did, if not moreso. ;p

For everyone, worry not, for I'll still be arround, I'll just not admit to being.. well, me. ;>

Evangeline, thanks for all the help, and the head to bounce ideas (and various small inanimate objects ;>) off of. Thanks for listening to all my ill formed logic, and checking me before I stuck my foot in my mouth clear up to my shoulder. And most of all, thanks for keeping yer hair curler away from my ears. ;p

Ambrose, now that you got my old forum, you'd best do a good job. I've spent untold hours and immeasurable ammounts of duct tape trying to keep the place together, and it's all precariously balanced just so. Do try to keep it in one piece huh? ;>

I guess that's all that really needs saying. I feel almost like Kenobi's spectre, I'll still be keeping an eye and an ear on things, but I'll be powerless to do much about anything. ;p

http://www.evernight.com/boards/canon/viewtopic.php?t=663

I dunno where else to put this. Greymalkin: you post is great, except...well, it's written almost entirely in black which is invisible to those of us using the MenInBlack color scheme (which was the default my account was created with) You might want to consider using a color other than black or white for text.....

The opposite problem occurs when people use light-colored text for people who use one of the lighter themes. This problem's gonna persist until all of the offered themes are either light or dark, not both. Until then, just get that highlighter ready...

Don't you hate it when you're having an off day with your writing, but you HAVE to write anyway just to advance the story. You end up looking the fool and you probably spammed the plotline a little.

That's just me anyway, I have those days.

Seems alot of posts I have to highlight to read well... It's a problem that will more than likely persist since we have user-choosable themes now... c'est la vie. For every step forwards comes a step backwards often

[edited for mispelling]

How DARE you edit my post for shortness. Especially the same day I commented that I didnt have it in me.

Challenge the will of thenician Dusk will you? You just wait, I got a little present for ya...

(Yet a little voice in my head keeps telling me it'd be wise to not push the 'Submit' button.)

Oh well...

You should all try being color blind... That makes it a lot harder.
Some days I gotta put covers up on my windows, change the gamma on my monitor, and highlight all the text just to read black on white...
sortof.
....
.

While this may or may not draw some unseemly comments (although I seriously doubt that anyone who would do so could be among those reading this thread), I feel it needs to be put into words for everyone else to think about. That said, I'll explain why I'm leaving Maxim after barely two weeks of play.

I used to play Monarchy, back when it was being run by Shareplay. It was a geniunely fun game, and I really enjoy this version of it as well. Before things closed down, I was a fairly well-established player, a member of a guild, and making my way up the score charts pretty steadily.

One of the things I liked about the guild I was in was that we never attacked anyone who didn't have a chance. By this, I mean we only attacked guilds of similar power to our own. I thought it was more than fair, especially since I knew how tough it could be starting out for the first time.

When I started reading about the Maxim game here, I liked what I saw. The storyline seemed very well written, and I looked forward to experiences similar to those I'd had in Monarchy.

Four hours after I left new player protection, I recieved a war declaration from a player with the rank of Duke. I don't know the exact scoring scheme, but I know this rank is fairly high up there, at least compared to that of a new player. He and a few other players of the same religion (I made the assumption that they were members of a guild) attacked several times, and, of course, decimated my forces. Trying not to take it personally, I wrote him what I thought was a pretty decently RPed message, telling him what I thought of his tactics, and suggesting that he find a more well-established target. His only response was, and I quote:

"sucks to be unguilded, huh?!"

Whatever. Maybe he was in a rush, maybe he was in a bad mood, maybe he didn't like my tone. Fine. I left my kingdom alone for a couple days to give them a chance to move on before I tried rebuilding. Once that was done, however, the scenario repeated itself.

And again.

And again.


So at this point, I've pretty much given up. I realize that I am by no means the only person out there who has experienced this sort of thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it is absolutely rediculous. In my opinion, one of two things (or both) need to change about this game:

Either a limit has to be set to how far below your own score you can attack or the number of players that can attack a kingdom within a certain time frame...

...Or a method has to be developed (if one doesn't already exist) to screen in-game messages to monitor the quality of the playing going on.


The first of these options is probably the easist and least labor intensive, and will probably cause the greatest uproar among seasoned players. Both would ease the sort of frustration this situation has caused. But in any case, my complaint--and my time here--is over.

[edited for spelling ]

My suggestion for you and anyone who is out there that is just starting out/or returning and not sure about much.

Quickly join an alliance, before you leave NPP, dont matter which one, something to protect yourselfs. If you find you dont liek this alliance leave and join another.

Night Creature:
What you describe is something that has happened for as long as I remember - and I used to play back in the Shareplay days as well. If you are playing either of the games with guilds (Maxim and/or guilds) and you do not belong to a guild, then you are treated as free land. It's to be expected. If you would like to play a game yet not be in a guild, try out Solo or Turmoil.... you will find them much more to your liking... rank is generally respected, and the player base is more-or-less self-regulating.

dustdevil:
What you say is true. When I first heard about Canon, I started a kingdom in Solo. What I really wanted to do was roleplay, though, so as soon as I felt comfortable with the workings of the game again I joined Maxim. I'm willing to deal with the guild element to a degree in exchange for a good posting environment, but ideally I'd like to play in a Solo-Maxim game. What do you think the odds are of something like that happening in the not-too-distant future?

1: It's hard enough to get people to roleplay in Maxim. Getting it done in a second game that doesn't even have guilds would be impossible.

2: As they said above, guildless are free land. It's the way it works... you're treated as a minor noble with no friends. That makes you a target to ambitious warlords... and a pretty helpless one, too. It's always been this way, even before Maxim/Mo'pri.

3: Dauthi's right, join a guild. If you don't like the existing ones, form one of your own (though, until you have like 5 members, you'll still be treated as a guildless by some). Guilds exist to encourage roleplay... they allow players to make friends and get in groups to roleplay together.

4: I don't think scribe messages/aviaries have ever been part of the roleplay in Mo'pri/Maxim, though I think the original inception may have called for it. At any rate, it's very rare to roleplay with anyone over in-game messages. That's what these forums are for. Perhaps in the future once Maxim has many more people and things start to head back towards RP requirements and such, we can begin using those as roleplay-only as well, but right now, that's not the case.

A Voice or Decae will correct me if I'm wrong in any of these ^_^

You don't have to actually play in the Maxim game in order to role-play here, either.

Coren, Solik, dustdevil, and Dauthi covered the majority of my comments on the matter, Night Creature. Unfortunately, this type of problem does occur -- I'd even venture to say with some regularity -- and you're definately not the first person who has experienced this, nor the first person who has decided to leave because of it.

I hope that you might stay on to rp in Maxim, even if you're not playing -- perhaps you could start a Solo kingdom and then do your rp-ing in this forum? It's worth a try, at least -- and I'd certainly hate to lose a player who actually wants to rp. Besides, staying in this forum solely to rp may allow you to find a guild who you feel compliments your own playing and writing style.

One last thing -- there's certainly nothing wrong with rp-ing your ingame aviary messages. Most players don't do it, and it's certainly not required, but I've found that it adds a bit more flavour and realism to the game.

Good idea. I have seen some verse scattered through different threads. It would be nice to have a thread where these and other songs and verses may be posted. A bard's thread so to speak...it could evolve to become a library for bards to 'borrow' from to sing the tales of Tonan to everyone, if the author is so willing to let this happen... just a thought.

Now onto the other matter...

I read Night Creature's post shortly after I rejoined Maxim after a long absence. I could relate because I was attacked in the second day of my kingdom. In some instances, and in this case true, this is faster than you can be accepted into a guild. But, knowing that this can happen from time to time, I deleted and restarted. Lo and behold, this new kingdom was not up for more than twelve hours, before it too was attacked. In this instance, I did not delete, as I was submitting a guild for acceptance, but kept my crippled kingdom and have been rebuilding it.

It was evident to me that if a new kingdom cannot last twenty four hours, there is a serious problem in the thinking of those who hunt them. Everyone attacks unguildeds, true, but to attack in this fashion is simply vicious and also a little pathetic. I realize that if at war, some do not want the kingdom that they had just killed off to restart and grow stronger...but this is a tactic, that should only be used in certain circumstances which I won't go into here.

When you attack in such a manner, you discourage newcomers to Maxim, as in the case of Night Creature...veterans such as myself will either bite the bullet and continue, or in some instances, throw their hands up, say it isn't worth the headache and leave also. I don't think that this is what any of us want. We would like Maxim to grow.

So after some deliberation, I am adding a new rule to my guild's charter and have posted it in this forum. It can be found here:
http://www.evernight.com/boards/canon/viewtopic.php?t=1546

I am posting this, so that anyone who finds themselves in this position, will know that there are some in this game who thinks that things have gone too far and something should be done about it ... and is. You can come to us for help. I, for one, don't want to see players like Night Creature leave because of this.

This applies to all faiths. Anyone, in any faith who is attacked while unguilded and is in the early stages of the game (...those who choose to remain unguilded for long periods of time and come to our notice will be encouraged to 'guild up'), may come to us for help. If the offenders are of Isonia, we will mediate with them on behalf of the unguilded. Darden and Foret attackers will be dealt with in a different manner.

I did not post this here to have our policies debated, (any comment should be directed to the thread above), but to let new Maxim players know that there are some who consider that what is happening is not right and are willing to do something about it.

Cruella:
I'll agree that guilds & Maxim are nasty for new players who join without knowing what to expect. It didn't used to be that bad when Evernight was larger, unfortunately the lack of players has made hunting unguilded one of the few ways to grow your kingdom. As Evernight grows again I think things will calm down a bit.

It is easy to get your guild into a position where there is no fair war you can enter into....so you either have to attack unfairly, or else amuse yourself hunting UGs..... in this case I think the UGs are the better choice, as the lesser of the two evils.

That all said, I think your guild's policy is perfect - Maxim is an excellent forum for a guild such as yours to flourish. I will enjoy watching you folks in action, even if I do end up at odds with you.

<edit>Sorry for debating your policies in this thread despite your wishes against it, but since my reasons for not liking it are to a large degree ooc, I don't think they belong in the other thread you refer to.</edit>

Cruella - sorry, as amiable as it may be, I don't like this crusade of yours - or, rather, I don't like the possible consequences. Unguilded are supposed to be just that - without allies. If they are unguilded but still work together, or work with an accepted guild, they are called a shadowguild, and though it was a long time ago now, I distinctly recall them being outlawed once. If that's not so anyomore, so be it, but I still feel shadowguilds are a bad idea.
A guild that protects unguilded is not the same as a shadowguild per se, but it could quite easily become one. That is not to say that your guild will, I'm just saying it sets a bad precedent, and it raises a lot of questions. How much will you trust people that are not members of your guild when they cry foul? How do you check if they did not cause the trouble they're in themselves? Would you fight a guild lower than yourselves in the rankings because they systematically attack unguildeds? Would you attack a guild in what looks like a fair fight, but let the unguildeds they've attacked fight back with you, thus perhaps making the numbers uneven without it being obvious to the populace at large?

The reasons that life as an unguilded is so hard these days are several, some of them already mentioned. Unguildeds have always been considered free land, but now the guilded outnumber the unguilded so much that there's hardly enough land to go around. Offering money to the church for land becomes useless somewhere between 10-15k acres - it's much more rewarding to spend 10 turns attacking an unguilded far below you in the rankings than it is to spend those turns making money and offering it to your god. And when the rest of your guild aren't prepared for war, what else can you do with your turns?
Another problem, the way I see it anyway, is that npp is only 80 turns, but you start the game with 305. It's very easy, especially for a new player, to spend more than those 80 turns before you're accepted into a guild.

The best bet for an unguilded remains joining a guild. Feel free to do your best in urging them to do that. Other things I can think of to make unguildeds have a slightly higher chance of survival are raising the number of turns in npp, making offering a viable choice for larger kingdoms (though still far from as good as for a small kingdom - we still want wars), and perhaps making it even more costly in turns to attack far above or below your own nw.

Zarquon, I appreciate your comments.

Please have no fear of Covenant 'becoming' a shadow guild. That will never happen.

To answer your questions...there are no easy answers...each situation will be dealt with differently.

Diplomacy will always come first.

For example: Hey So and So, Gm of So and So.. your members are attacking a brand new player of the game.. he is unguilded right now and searching for a guild...this is the second time he has made a kingdom, the first was killed off within 24 hours.. Could you please see fit to sparing this kingdom and taking him off the banner and spread the word.. so that the game will gain another player...

Something to that effect. What happens after that, will depend on many factors, there is no rigid guildeline which we will follow. We only seek balance and justice.

As far as attacking guilds which continually bottomfeed, eating all new kingdoms...who knows what Covenant will do.. that has yet to be seen.

Remember also, that only those unguildeds who come to us for help, will receive it.

I understand the problem with tithing for land. The gain is not so great as when attacking an unguilded... However...you ask..



Well.. in our guild we will be inspiring and tithing... and if that isn't exciting enough for us, then we shall go to the boards and role play, because this is a role play game.

Which leads me to reply to Creed.



This is role play. The OPEN threads should be just that. There really is no way to 'slow down or screw up' what has been written, for someone who is honestly trying. The story can and should change directions with the addition of a new character or situation. It is what makes being part of a role play fun, you never know where it will lead or what twists or turns it will take on it's way. There should be no set in stone storyline...if there is, the role play should be a closed thread.

Poor posts? Even a 'poor' post can add to the story in the grand picture of things. The only way to get better is to post. So, I will encourage even those who think they can't write...it's amazing what comes out with encouragement. The more one writes, the better one will get, just like anything else. If someone is unsure about a post, then they do have the option of contacting the others in the thread or a writer whom you admire for feedback and help. I know anyone in my guild would be glad to act in this fashion.

Another way to avoid what Creed is talking about is to READ the threads before you post. Please, please read before you post.

This will lead to fewer discrepancies in threads. These discrepancies happen because people haven't taken the time to actually take a look at the setting, situation etc... not all taverns are the same, not all meetings, or balls are set in the same setting, not all characters have castles or keeps and therefore, you cannot attack their 'castle', it goes on and on...

Remember the key to role playing well, isn't just the writing, it is also the research...which is as simple as reading the thread.

My apologies if this isn't appropriate....

These two threads (from Game Changes) should be of concern to all serious Maxim players. I would recommend reading and commenting on them ASAP.

http://www.evernight.com/boards/canon/viewtopic.php?t=1703

http://www.evernight.com/boards/canon/viewtopic.php?t=1703

Thanks

Maxim rules have been updated, please read them.

Decae: Thank you very much.

I look forward to more diverse roleplaying getting underway now. Thank you!!!!

-

This would make more sense in Questions but it says to ask rule questions here so:

For the sake of clarity.... Okay, you lose 1 turn per hour per week you do not post...and if the number of weeks you miss exceed the number of turns per hour, what happens?

I mean...logically, you quit playing or start roleplaying...but literally I'm wondering how that would be handled.