Unguilded Letos verus DEM (Shadow Guild)

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Postby Alex_Greystone » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:50 pm

And this Guild vs. Solo game arguement. It sounds good if you look at it black and white, but unguilded kingdoms are ALLOWED in the Guilds game. If you want to try your luck solo against a guild, this is the place to do it. Sometimes people don't want the restrictions that come with being in a guild.

Unguildeds are only a problem if you let them be a problem. Everyone loves them early in the game when guilds can feed off them. It's hilarious the reaction some people have when they bite back.
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Postby Grunt » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:55 pm

that is true
but I have occationally gone UG
tryed to get two ex players hooked again by going UG again
didnt work I still had fun
I announced at the start of age I was to be UG so anyone who knew history could be prepared
UGs have always been welcome fodder and farms
now we have three dedicated Faith warriors and one who is short on time
that includes DKII as you made a thread about him too
we coordinate zero between our realms we hit undefended kingdoms
perhaps that realm is at war perhaps not I do not care
personally I do not even have DB access nor do I frequent any faith forums
right now I am declared on a barney
next will be an angie such it has been all age for me
get over it or protect yourself
probly 75 percent of my turns this age have been toward war
and I LOVE IT
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Postby ~Vox~ » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:46 pm

So it's ok for Guilds to hit UG's but not vice versa?


i mean if your in a guild and get trashed in a guild war are you gonna pass up hitting a UG'd just so you can tithe?


You people act like UG's are more powerful than a guild.......
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Postby Geothe » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:59 pm

"You people act like UG's are more powerful than a guild"

Well.... in DEM's case.....
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Postby Nether » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:14 pm

Geothe wrote:"You people act like UG's are more powerful than a guild"

Well.... in DEM's case.....

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Postby Quick Draw » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:47 pm

Geothe wrote:"You people act like UG's are more powerful than a guild"


Yes, we are that damn good! :wink:
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Postby Old Crow » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:01 am

Some of you are missing the point greatly.Theses hits are not random. They have been hitting my guild mates and other guilds so they can not rebuild. They are kingdoms that can no longer defend themselfs after being in war. They shake it off, build then place whatever troops they can in place. Then some UG comes along and takes what they have rebuilt with whatever turns they have. After wasting turns they try again. Then boom! wasted more turns. whats the point? These people are really trying to play Guilds. Thats grave robbing. And its putting a bad taste in peoples mouths who thought they were playing a Guilds game. After that they became inactive.
And it's not that we are getting our butts kicked by UG's we have allready regained our guilds lost lands.

But why do we have to waste turns on playing Solo when were supost to be playing guilds?

If your going to play in the guilds game you need to be in a guild.
If you do not want to be in a guild play solo.

I Personally don't think UG's should be apart of the guilds game. But it has been said that UG are Ok. Fine... My point is that theses UG's have abused this loop hole. Making this a Solo game. Some have said that no one has complaned before... sooner or later someone had to stand up and say something. We have.

I say we end this debate and put up a poll.

If unguilded wins then we should change the games name to Semiguilded and let everyone fend for themselfs... or not. LOL
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Postby GoldWyvern » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:48 am

I have to agree with Old Crow (big surprise since he's in my guild, but it's the point I originally tried to make)

Maybe it was a complete concidence that DKII struck our big hitters from high above just a few hours before Fervent moved in..

Maybe it was a coincidence that the UG shadow guild Grunt was part of took out several DEM members (squad C and a couple others) exactly after they got hit by Fervent (different war) and hadn't had a chance to rebuild..

Maybe it was a coincidence that..

Well, you get my point. But, let's take this to the extreme. Let's move this along to where it'll eventually lead.. according to 'the way the game is coded.'

Hypothetical scenario only - DEM would never do THIS:

Next age, let's say that I ask all of DEM to create new kingdoms without their normal, well known names. I ask them to scatter themselves across Angelique guilds for initial protection. If a guild is not offering them NW, I ask them to disconnect from a guild and join another, more powerful one.

After a month or so, when our kingdoms are well built up to protect themselves, I ask them to go unguilded - shadow guild, really. DEM in the shadows, but no alliances.. so nobody scouting would know. At least, no alliances that last longer then enough to send caravans and such.

We wait for someone to go to war - the right war. When we are 100% confident we can take the heathen guild, making sure we have at major advantage, we strike. We're unguilded, so it's totally honerable. Even through they are at war.

After we have been scouted, confirmed we are UG's, we rejoin various guilds. Split up, usually the lower end Angelique guilds with less ethical concerns and more membership concerns. Can Barnie split up and take on all six of the low end guilds that we'd join? Yes, but not while at war with Leto, and to even keep track of it would be a pain.

Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.. till we are big, strong, able to take care of ourselves..

Then form DEM. I mean, it's all in the code.

Now.. this is a pretty unrealistic scenario, honestly, because it would require some pretty intense coordination and honestly - the element of surprise (and stupidity on some people). Still, it would work, to some extent.. it would majorly disrupt things, and people are already thinking along 'these lines'.

Back in the day of Gold, Isis, etc.. we did not have this 'honerable' combat like we have today. We did not allow people to fight man vs man (or woman), we lumped as many guilds together as possible and went after it. Actually, the game was big enough back then to allow such.

An unwritten 'code of conduct' was formed, to make wars more enjoyable. In example, I might of broken it when I joined MuM in the war with Fervent.. through that's up for debate and I really didn't think so at the time from the numbers I was given.

This new element which never really existed before, and perhaps it's due to the skill of Quickdraw, DKII, Grunt, and others, makes wars less fun. Yes, you guys are good - so good - that now you're being noticed. The 'unguilded' argument has been going on all age, I've heard of it from a lot of people - I just finally got pissed off enough about it to post about it.

Grunt, Quickdraw, DKII.. I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong. I'm not saying what you're doing is against the rules. Merely, there should be *some* code of conduct to your actions, just like there is a code of conduct with guilds.

I can hear your counter argument. 'Unguildeds live by their own rules.' Well, so do guilds, honestly.

Do we really want to bring it to the point where every guild belives they need one or two unguilded on their side? Where it's mandatory? That's the whispers I've been hearing, and they are getting louder and louder.
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Postby Hollisandra » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:03 am

GW... your missing the point of shadowguilding.. there needs to be 4 or more people hitting together for it to be one... DK!!, Grunt, and QD are only 3 people therefore they're not a shadow guild.

Can we move onto the next complaint now please?!?
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Postby Quick Draw » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:31 am

Hollisandra wrote:Can we move onto the next complaint now please?!?


My balls itch, and the cream I bought at the drug counter isn't working. Do you think if I tried smearing some vagisil on them, that that might do the trick? :|
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Postby Old Crow » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:32 am

Who said it was ONLY 3?
How do u know there are not others?
How do you know there will not be more?


You just don't get it Hollisandra
It does not matter if it's 1 or 20


You really really missed the point here.
Try moving onto that
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Postby Quick Draw » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:43 am

Crow, if it makes you feel any better, I suppose that I could submit a guild application, and play as a guild of one kingdom. I have actually done that in the past, and I played the exact same game I am playing now. Absolutely zero difference.

Hey I got an idea to spice up this thread through. Let’s argue over the color of shit!
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Postby GoldWyvern » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:53 am

I think of shit as Leto brown. :)

Reread the post I wrote please, and post on the topics presented within or not at all. Arguing semantics only shows a weak mind with no valid counter-argument.
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Postby Quick Draw » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:14 am

Don't need to reread your post, nor despite your weak flame, to even respond to it really. Why? Because while you may suppose that you are giving us all, fresh unspoken insight into the mechanics of this game. You haven't said anything that hasn't been said before over the many years of this game. And are frankly just being tedious. The fact that this thread has gone 4 pages is only because people have for the most part come to laugh, mock, and point at you who are too dense to get it.
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Postby Karhedron » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:15 am

Quick Draw wrote:I suppose that I could submit a guild application, and play as a guild of one kingdom.


Oh now that works! I think I've got some of my old charters lying around....

But really, i don't see the point...

People keep saying solo's a chance to play by yaself for ya faith, but i've always seen solo as playing by yaself FOR yaself... faith just being an annoying thing that stops you taking out a third of your opponents dammit!

If there's a single game that supports this format of play, it's one of the guilded games. Go with it, and if you can't stand up to a few unallied UGs.. well.. pfft!

ANYWAYS, back on the new REAL subject:

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Postby DKII » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:16 am

Quit whining. None of us ever hit anyone smaller than us and you never have any troops. Therefore you can't even claim that you build and put whatever troops you can get. YOU HAVE NONE AT ALL. And my little 1k realm took out your heavy hitters all by myself? That's just sad.

And if you did what you planned, then pretty much every guild you joined would be told you'd be getting hit, and if they had a problem with it they'd get hit themselves. You don't see any of us hopping in and out of guilds, do you?

There's a simple solution to your problem--hire troops to defend yourselves. I've been preaching it all age yet it seems you're incapble of learning it.

edit: QD, that's exactly what Dark Horse has been doing in HUMAN, hehe. Guess I'll need to go that route myself, then GW will just switch to claiming how dishonorable my guild is! At least then I could declare guildwar on people though, hmm, tempting...
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Postby Losmar » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:26 am

update the db's so that each faith has a None guild... since apparently they seem to be a shadowguild...

as an unguilded the age before last I believe... or last age... can't remember I was top scouter... and top 5 the ages before that... I don't understand why that's a problem since my faith really didn't do anything in comparison to what I alone did... hell, I beat out entire guilds in submissions... this is an information game and if you don't got the information you can't do shit... only way to find 15k+ realms that are undefended is to scout, why make your own db when there's one out there already... and to my knowledge the Leto db is called a faith db... not that I have much faith in it... but that's just me

as for having information... I've done crap this age and have only done 2 real days of attacking... got 20k land total for it but darn if I haven't put the time in to be up around where Grunt's at...

as for working together... if you're UG... you are looking for underdefended realms to bust you have a limited supply of targets... odds are that realms of relatively similar size will find similar targets... fog of war kinda since top 50 are pretty unreachable right now...

DKII, I had no idea you were ug... good to hear it... I've been told by Venus she loves being UG... but she's afraid of what'd happen to Fervent... for one I'm pretty sure they'd mostly stop forting when building... she wouldn't be there to scream at them to...lol, but also she'd be able to beat them for their mistakes...

as UG and "connected" to a guild you are at super-high-risk for getting blasted before you are any good to your guild... you have to play completely different and not get complacent... if every guild had a couple ugs... they'd get wiped out so much sooner and the guilds who pay attention would each have 2-5 realms much bigger than normal when they go to war... so basically if each guild did that they'd be hurting themselves...

how in the world can someone not build and then hire 500 dragons? HOW!!!? I train around 1k when I get done using my turns... if a UG can do it why can't guild members...?


UG's taking on whole guilds... HDog and I tried that, I got smoked(by black rose I believe) before I got beyond the first target and I'm pretty sure HDog got his taken care of, granted it was a smallerish guild and well... he picked his target well...
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Postby ~Vox~ » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:04 am

Reread the post I wrote please, and post on the topics presented within or not at all. Arguing semantics only shows a weak mind with no valid counter-argument.



Now.. this is a pretty unrealistic scenario




Speaking of weak minds and no counter argument.........



Next


An unwritten 'code of conduct' was formed,



There was?? i must of missed that memo back then. Shitty tactics were the rule more than the exception as i remember,
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Postby Nether » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:16 am

There was?? i must of missed that memo back then. Shitty tactics were the rule more than the exception as i remember,


same here, nothing is new except for the people bitching, in this case an old player coming back and picking up where he left off.
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Postby ~Vox~ » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:22 am

there needs to be 4 or more people hitting together for it to be one... DK!!, Grunt, and QD are only 3 people therefore they're not a shadow guild.

Can we move onto the next complaint now please?!?




Well i'll join and make a shadow guild then......I'd follow Grunt to hell and back. I always follow greatness......well as long as you don't count Gili, Venus, Alias, and Tara ;p
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Postby DKII » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:11 am

Yea Losmar I usually have more troops on 1k acres then these guys do on 10k.
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Postby Quick Draw » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:19 pm

GoldWyvern wrote:I think of shit as Leto brown. :)

You are mistaken Sir, the color of Leto is Gold. And it is a little know fact that Leto shit's gold bricks, in order to provide extra funding to their doms. A small advantage to being of the true faith. 8)

DKII wrote:At least then I could declare guildwar on people though, hmm, tempting...

Indeed, I had thought on it once or twice my self. :D
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Postby Nether » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:33 pm

Quick Draw wrote:Don't need to reread your post, nor despite your weak flame, to even respond to it really. Why? Because while you may suppose that you are giving us all, fresh unspoken insight into the mechanics of this game. You haven't said anything that hasn't been said before over the many years of this game. And are frankly just being tedious. The fact that this thread has gone 4 pages is only because people have for the most part come to laugh, mock, and point at you who are too dense to get it.


Damnit its my job to ridicule him >=[
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Postby Karhedron » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:04 pm

Could you make a guild with the acronym 'None'?

That way you can be guilded and still LOOK and behave like an unguilded!!

A whole guild of kingdoms that can act and be treated like unguilded. *nods* Very cunning plan me thinks...
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Postby DKII » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:21 pm

Yeah, the Non-Organizational Narcissistic Elitists, that should fit GW's view of us.
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