ACORN

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Re: ACORN

Postby owly » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:08 am

Ask for the complimentary cup.....
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Re: ACORN

Postby Reylan Talonspyre » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:21 pm

I want the Senior Special. Age discrimination if they don't give it too me.
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Re: ACORN

Postby Atla » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:58 pm

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Re: ACORN

Postby Tubs » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:08 pm

In 2004 there was a purposeful SEC decision allowing 5 firms to leverage up to 30 and 40 to 1 from a 12 to 1 debt-to-net capital ratio. Those special 5 firms were Bear Stearns, Lehman, Merrill, Goldman and Morgan Stanley. That decision made these firms stability perilous, meaning even a small change in the economy would have a dire effect. This change happened at the request of the banks through lobbyists.

If you want less regulation of these firms (the ones that still exist that is) after reading that, then consider my mind blown. I'm not saying this SEC decision was the only cause, it wasn't, but if these firms weren't so leveraged we wouldn't be talking about trillion dollar bailouts right now. The heart of the issue is that our banks are 'too big to fail', there needs to be much better laws that control the power of lobbyists, and taxpayers can't be held responsible for fixing their mess when they screw up. Unless every one of these issues changes, then regulation laws are going to be necessary.

While I don't disagree that a self-regulated "free market" system might work better, it's a pie in the sky argument at this point considering what we currently have. Maybe if we had let the current system collapse and built it fresh with all new players, we could have changed it. Maybe it will be the agenda of the next Republican administration like healthcare is for Obama - I hope so.
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Re: ACORN

Postby Grunt » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:31 pm

tubs there is much blame to go around but ACORN and the CRA have some of that blame
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Re: ACORN

Postby Isildur » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:51 pm

Those special 5 firms were Bear Stearns, Lehman, Merrill, Goldman and Morgan Stanley.


Yup, and those 5 special firms contributed to the mess -- no one has denied that anywhere but as Grunt says have only pointed out there's blame to go around, and ACORN and the CRA share some of it.

Just curious, but if you add the negative impact from those 5 firms together how does it compare with the impact of Fannie & Freddie (GSE's)?
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Re: ACORN

Postby Tubs » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:06 pm

I'm not going to include a bunch of links that you probably won't follow about the CRA, but I will suggest you go to the Wikipedia page on the CRA and check out the section on its relation to the 2008 financial crisis. There are a number of credible references there that dispute its significance in the crisis. It's a great shame if you really do believe the CRA was in any way a part of this mess, but if your minds are made up then I guess there's nothing else I can say about it.

Just curious, but if you add the negative impact from those 5 firms together how does it compare with the impact of Fannie & Freddie (GSE's)?


Well, that GSE's had a role in the crisis is undeniable. But if you are looking to pin the whole thing on GSE's then I think you're barking up the wrong tree again. I'll refer you to another good post Barry Ritholtz made last year about this; http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/fannie-mae-and-the-financial-crisis/.
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Re: ACORN

Postby Grunt » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:54 pm

the whole thing can be pinned on noone
that is what makes it such a severe crisis
there is no easy fix
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Re: ACORN

Postby Reylan Talonspyre » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:33 am

Let them fail and come up with a new system.

Come on, who cares who is in charge. Lets do something different. Or at least, let us do something that works 93% of the time. That is why I say:

GOLD STANDARD FOR THE WIN!

And for those of you not partial to gold, lets base our currency off of:

MOOOOON ROCKS!

Fuck the 3rd World. We rule.
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Re: ACORN

Postby Isildur » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:35 am

Tubs wrote:I'm not going to include a bunch of links that you probably won't follow about the CRA, but I will suggest you go to the Wikipedia page on the CRA and check out the section on its relation to the 2008 financial crisis. There are a number of credible references there that dispute its significance in the crisis. It's a great shame if you really do believe the CRA was in any way a part of this mess, but if your minds are made up then I guess there's nothing else I can say about it.


Sounds familiar, after all -- I've provided a bunch of credible links that you apparently didn't follow about the CRA and its relationship to this crisis, and could do the same for the GSE's, but I guess you feel your mind is already made up and in your mind there's no way the CRA "was in any way a part of this mess".

No one here is saying the CRA is solely to blame, no one is looking to "pin the whole thing on GSE's"

Its just that many of us are willing to consider the role of all the actors that contributed to this mess regardless of whether it may or may not support our personal philosophies or political beliefs, while you seem to be unwilling to do the same.
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Re: ACORN

Postby Nymphsong » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:02 pm

:clap:

Go ACORN...way to show the true American Values...
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